I find your comment about 3 attachment interesting. In Ichazo's presentation the core of the 3 fixation is a projection of the absent or disinterested father leading to attempts to attract attention and create an impression. That seems more related to the protective function rather than the nurturing function, although one could say that the felt distance of the father turns the 3 more toward the mother as a source of attachment. Likewise with the 6, projecting a feeling of incapacity originating from a failure in acting with their peers, so looking to the protective father. And the 9, projecting a feeling of abandonment by the mother turning to the social attachment? which takes the 9,3,6 triangle and rotates it one step clockwise.
As for the specific object relation take in the Riso-Hudson school (which is my Enneagram lineage), this syncs with the Hornevian groups, and specifically the bit of that teaching that is sometimes referred to as 'suppressed centres' (which I think is an unfortunate and rather misleading term), in a way that makes great sense to me.
About the roles, from where I stand, though, praise and being reassured that your worthy would fall more into nurturing than protection. However, of course it's pretty reasonable to argue, as you did, that one might lead to the other.
Regardless, though, I think the most important bit to remember is that what is being described (regardless of whose description/reasoning we are studying at any given time) is psychological structure, not people. An actual individual Three might not recognise either of these things as an actual lack in childhood and might have had just fine relations with both parents. However the *psychological structure* still stands. (But on this, I'm quite sure we are already in agreement.)
Indeed, it's the psychological structures. In my understanding of Protoanalysis, the actual fixation arises almost accidentally from an event that could of itself be trivial (the trigger for me was when somebody I'd invited to my 6th birthday party didn't come). A young child gains experiences in each aspect of life and I use this analogy, sometime around 6 - 9 or so a child has nine "containers" of experiences. Then, like a grain of salt in a super-saturated solution, some event precipitates these from one of the containers into the fixation as a projection of how things are rather than simply a collection of experience. That doesn't deny that some fixations might be more likely to occur than others due to genetics, temperament, or life events but even if a child is primed for one fixation a random accident could lead to a different one. I ran across a good quote a while ago to the effect that while experiences influenced an adult worldview they determine the construction a child's worldview.
Yes, proto doesn't use the idea of type, rather looks at how and where attention is fixated. Passion and Fixation are two sides of the same coin. From Enneagrams of the Fixations: "Each Ego-Fixation produces its own ego-manifestation called a "Passion" to which we have a constant attraction. ...a Passion is the product of a sub-conscious yearning for the Divine Principle obscured by the Fixation." (p.80) For example, as a 5 the Divine Principle is Omniscience and when obscured it leads to avarice, especially for information (perhaps in the social domain, becoming a busy-body and gossip, or intellectually, a know-it-all).
I agree they are two sides of the same (or almost same) coin. However one is mental; the other heart-related. And I think my views on the origins of both might differ slightly from what you quoted.
I find your comment about 3 attachment interesting. In Ichazo's presentation the core of the 3 fixation is a projection of the absent or disinterested father leading to attempts to attract attention and create an impression. That seems more related to the protective function rather than the nurturing function, although one could say that the felt distance of the father turns the 3 more toward the mother as a source of attachment. Likewise with the 6, projecting a feeling of incapacity originating from a failure in acting with their peers, so looking to the protective father. And the 9, projecting a feeling of abandonment by the mother turning to the social attachment? which takes the 9,3,6 triangle and rotates it one step clockwise.
Hi Burton, thanks for commenting. Some thoughts:
As for the specific object relation take in the Riso-Hudson school (which is my Enneagram lineage), this syncs with the Hornevian groups, and specifically the bit of that teaching that is sometimes referred to as 'suppressed centres' (which I think is an unfortunate and rather misleading term), in a way that makes great sense to me.
About the roles, from where I stand, though, praise and being reassured that your worthy would fall more into nurturing than protection. However, of course it's pretty reasonable to argue, as you did, that one might lead to the other.
Regardless, though, I think the most important bit to remember is that what is being described (regardless of whose description/reasoning we are studying at any given time) is psychological structure, not people. An actual individual Three might not recognise either of these things as an actual lack in childhood and might have had just fine relations with both parents. However the *psychological structure* still stands. (But on this, I'm quite sure we are already in agreement.)
Indeed, it's the psychological structures. In my understanding of Protoanalysis, the actual fixation arises almost accidentally from an event that could of itself be trivial (the trigger for me was when somebody I'd invited to my 6th birthday party didn't come). A young child gains experiences in each aspect of life and I use this analogy, sometime around 6 - 9 or so a child has nine "containers" of experiences. Then, like a grain of salt in a super-saturated solution, some event precipitates these from one of the containers into the fixation as a projection of how things are rather than simply a collection of experience. That doesn't deny that some fixations might be more likely to occur than others due to genetics, temperament, or life events but even if a child is primed for one fixation a random accident could lead to a different one. I ran across a good quote a while ago to the effect that while experiences influenced an adult worldview they determine the construction a child's worldview.
When you say ‘fixation’, do you mean type as a whole (as opposed fixations vs passions)?
Yes, proto doesn't use the idea of type, rather looks at how and where attention is fixated. Passion and Fixation are two sides of the same coin. From Enneagrams of the Fixations: "Each Ego-Fixation produces its own ego-manifestation called a "Passion" to which we have a constant attraction. ...a Passion is the product of a sub-conscious yearning for the Divine Principle obscured by the Fixation." (p.80) For example, as a 5 the Divine Principle is Omniscience and when obscured it leads to avarice, especially for information (perhaps in the social domain, becoming a busy-body and gossip, or intellectually, a know-it-all).
I agree they are two sides of the same (or almost same) coin. However one is mental; the other heart-related. And I think my views on the origins of both might differ slightly from what you quoted.